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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
to get a big banger engine? Is there a diesel one that fits? or is that too heavy , even with lightening , for a non turbo screamer?
 

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do a search on vortex, been covered many times. was in technical somewhere, there was a how to. cant find it with a quick look, will spend more time tomorrow if i get a chance.
it wont make for a high revving engine btw.
 

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dave c has a 2.1 engine, it is not as revvy as the 2L or 1.8
the 9a is a short block with a long throw crank and the same pistons as the abf engine.
Whats wrong with the crank in the engine you have?
If it were me i would go for an ABF (mk3 or seat engine) as a base and then get some vw motorsport parts for it as they got that engine up to 280 bhp with throtle bodies or 230 wit the standard digifant injection
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry , should hve said it wasn't for me , rather a q I was asked...Personally I'd be happy enough with a well built 9A with oversized pistons , and the oe crank. But some of my mates are never happy......
 

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QUOTE (rmn @ Jan 5 2006, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>dave c has a 2.1 engine, it is not as revvy as the 2L or 1.8
the 9a is a short block with a long throw crank and the same pistons as the abf engine.
Whats wrong with the crank in the engine you have?
If it were me i would go for an ABF (mk3 or seat engine) as a base and then get some vw motorsport parts for it as they got that engine up to 280 bhp with throtle bodies or 230 wit the standard digifant injection

Sorry to barge in but what type of internals were they running to get that kinda hp? Is there a vw motorsport crank/rods/pistons kits head configurations etc available?

Is there an advantage power wise or reliabaility in choosing the tallblock over the shortblock?
My last question i promise
.

Are there any particular throttle bodies that work best brands etc or is it more down to how the t-bodies are tuned?
 

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The VWM engines used faily standard internals
they did have a higher compression and use nice cams with a 4 branch manifold, all of which can be gotten for not a huge amount of money.
They ran throtle bodies with 8 injectors, cant remember the diameter of the tbodies, and they ran on bosch motronic with the big bhp(250+bhp) cars, the smaller 230bhp models used a lower compression piston simular cams and the standard digifant injection with the abf inlet manifold gas flowed. Keep the
questions coming, i have lots of time
 

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QUOTE (BigRed @ Jan 5 2006, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Are there any particular throttle bodies that work best brands etc or is it more down to how the t-bodies are tuned?


No in the brand, but there are different types. Any throttle body coming out of the UK is most likely made by Jenvey, the different types - tapered, roller barrel, direct to head, twin-bore dcoe-fitment.

And they all sound sooo good !!
 

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QUOTE (thos @ Jan 5 2006, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No in the brand, but there are different types. Any throttle body coming out of the UK is most likely made by Jenvey, the different types - tapered, roller barrel, direct to head, twin-bore dcoe-fitment.

And they all sound sooo good !!

The sound is rather appealing alrite almost enough to draw me from wastegate chatter.

Il ask away then richard


Ive seen jenveys on abf's engines but i always thought that getting anything over 200 hp at the wheels is seriousslly expensive.
I was under the impression that to get figures like 270 hp all internals would have to be changed or the block blueprinted .
Anyone have any idea as to what type of money you would need to source parts for and get built an engine of this type of power?

Thanks for the info.
 

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price is dependant on the spec you bring it to, the 270 bhp ones had a compression ratio of 12.8:1, the bore was 84mm, they rev to 8000rpm and ran on bosch mototronic.
the crank and rods were basicly standard items balanced, there was a lightened flywheel with a gas flowed head and a 4 branch.
The throtle bodies were mounted on an inlet manifold with an inside width of 46.5mm and a height of 28.0mm with 8 injectors, not sure of the type of throtle bodies, but that is about 3-4k in parts and then to build it.
But it would be awesome in a mk1
and it would work round the ring too cos of the 1000 meter height difference from lowest to highest points on the track.......hmmmmm
 

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QUOTE (rmn @ Jan 5 2006, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the 9a is a short block with a long throw crank and the same pistons as the abf engine.

We had a similar debate on VAGE before. The 9a and ABF pistons are not identical. They are similar but have different compression heights.

And as for 270bhp out of an N/A 16v engine, Was this not also discussed elsewhere recently. Probably possible in a VW motorsport car but in reality not really going to happen that often with a set of cams, throttle bodies and a 4 branch.
 

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QUOTE (rmn @ Jan 6 2006, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>as for the 9a and abf pistons, i think you will find the discussion on vage was the 9a and kr, so eh your totally wrong there, but hey!


I know what pistons the discussion was about on VAGE, What I said above was "we had a SIMILAR dicussion on VAGE"
But as I said above, 9a and ABF pistons are not identical either, which they are not so looks like I may not be wrong?

As for the homologation papers, doesnt matter where you copied it from, As I said above, there arent too many 270bhp 16v's going around with just a set of cams, a 4 branch and throttle bodies.
 

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The VW Motorsport ABF's as Richard pointed out, ran a 12.8:1 compression ratio and Motronic, but were built by Hans Leheman engines, ran on MEGA expensive ELF race fuel to cope with the compression ratio, had special Leheman tweaked and programmed Bosch ECUs,serious work carried out to carefully selected stock components, carbon intake and airbox, really trick cams and exhaust manifold and cost in excess of 20k euro and had a rebuild interval of something like 1500 km if I remember correctly.
A mate of mine in the UK used to work for SBG sport who ran the Sony sponsored yellow MkIII kit cars with Tapio and Alistar at the wheel, he tells some great stories about trying to get those motors to start in the mornings midway through dusty rallies, when they were half fucked, push starting them with vans, injecting in special cocktails of easy start octane boost,fuel etc straight into the manifold........mad stuff.


So to sum up, that sort of output from a 2.0 atmo ABF will not be achievable for less than 15k in the car.
Hell its difficult get that power with a feckin supercharger attached.......
 

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Yeha, I remember posting about this over on vage....hours before I got the boot

Yeah, I'm using a 95.8 stroke crank out of a 1.9 TDI. My pistons are a a special order with the pin in a slightly higher location to drop the piston when at TDC. As pointed out, the engine doesnt like to rev at all but developes a nice wallop of mid range torque.
I still firmly believe if you get 180 brake out of your 1.8, 1.9, 2.0 or 2.1 L 16V engine you'll be doing real well. I bolted a turbo on to mine, 4 extra injectors, water injectrion and K starr management and managed 220!!!
 

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QUOTE (8valver @ Jan 6 2006, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I know what pistons the discussion was about on VAGE, What I said above was "we had a SIMILAR dicussion on VAGE"
But as I said above, 9a and ABF pistons are not identical either, which they are not so looks like I may not be wrong? I thought you would have learnt your lesson on piston/rod combos at this stage.
As for the homologation papers, doesnt matter where you copied it from, As I said above, there arent too many 270bhp 16v's going around with just a set of cams, a 4 branch and throttle bodies.

Leon thats nice of you to point out, we all make mistakes like your mouth has done for you.....but this is neither the time or place
i suppose you are technicly correct, but .23 of a milimeter is the difference, but the can be used,
I do like the way you come back with the aggressive statements based on your vast facts....
grow up and stop just having a go!
 
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