Yeah, thats why I always say "im ringing about the car you have for sale" when I ring, soon as hear "which car?" thats me done!

 

So what you are saying is that if someone has more than one car for sale at a time then they are automatically some sort of gangster and the cars are clearly not worth buying?

 

With regard to your comments Geo:

What I'm saying is that if someone says they're a private seller - I take that to mean that the person is selling their daily driver or a member of their families daily driver - not a car they bought solely to resell. I figure if someone is buying and selling cars at a rate of more than 5-7 a year they're a defacto dealer. Business rules would then apply.

I realise there are loads of fellows that do buy, recondition and sell cars - to me that's not a private seller, regardless of how honourable they might be. Some cars develop a 'special' following and there are more success stories associated with them - the VW marque is a good example. Networking and reputations lead you to the straight ones. Life's experiences have left me being a sceptic about all things and spending money on a car (new or used) is right up in my high end of scepticism.

BTW - Gangster was your word.

 

QUOTE (americanpaddy @ Mar 17 2008, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With regard to your comments Geo:

What I'm saying is that if someone says they're a private seller - I take that to mean that the person is selling their daily driver or a member of their families daily driver - not a car they bought solely to resell. I figure if someone is buying and selling cars at a rate of more than 5-7 a year they're a defacto dealer. Business rules would then apply.

I realise there are loads of fellows that do buy, recondition and sell cars - to me that's not a private seller, regardless of how honourable they might be. Some cars develop a 'special' following and there are more success stories associated with them - the VW marque is a good example. Networking and reputations lead you to the straight ones. Life's experiences have left me being a sceptic about all things and spending money on a car (new or used) is right up in my high end of scepticism.

BTW - Gangster was your word.

You've nothing better to do than moan about a fella who deals in the odd car.Every second person in England and Ireland sells cars.Sure I'd sell buckets and spades if there was a few quid in it!

You were probably getting seriously excited about a 1.8 Corrado or something similar.Get a fucking life...

 

The difference between a genuine private sale and a half-dealer selling cars from his back garden is huge! Has nobody ever been told be wary of people posing as private sellers??

A genuine private seller will have owned the car, lived with it, might (if theyre honest) tell you whats wrong with it, and you'll get a lower price than a dealership.

A dealership wont haved lived with a car, but at least you have a warranty to fall back on if theyve missed anything... and thats why you pay that premium.

A guy trading in cars from his back garden will not have lived with a car, might miss problems the car has, will give you no warranty, and if dishonest will cover up huge problems and sell on a lemon without you having any comeback because it was a "Private sale".

Not everyone who buys cars will be able to spot when theyre being screwed, and thats why anyone who buys private knows the risks involved but do it for the lower price, so yeah they should definately be protected from people trading in cars and avoiding any of the responibility that comes with being a genuine trader.
And im sure plenty of people have bought from these people and everything worked out just peachy, but if it went wrong on them they'd be the first on the forums saying "what can I do, do i have any comeback".

 

I often buy cars with the sole intention of selling them on. I make no apologies for it. If someone wants to disregard any car I am selling simply due to that fact then it's their loss. Nevertheless I am a private individual selling a car so it is a private sale, with all that implies.

In any case private sales (in the sense you mean them) are often a bad way to buy a car in my experience. A lot of people in this country are clueless about cars in general and proper maintenance procedures and any cars they are selling on or trading in will often be in a very poor state of repair.

The best way to buy a car is off an enthusiast, which is an entirely different matter. I'd say there are lots of people on this site who have bought a car and by the time they come to sell it on it is in much better condition than it was when they bought it. My A4 is a good case in point, whoever ends up with it after me will have a seriously good car, much better than when I bought it (in a private sale) 18 months ago. This is the opposite of the case for most other drivers and their cars.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Mar 17 2008, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I often buy cars with the sole intention of selling them on. I make no apologies for it. If someone wants to disregard any car I am selling simply due to that fact then it's their loss. Nevertheless I am a private individual selling a car so it is a private sale, with all that implies.

And for every one of you theres 10 "gangsters" out there... ive dealt with them, ive test driven theyre cars, and in the end ive never bought from them!
I remember almost buying a bora from a guy in cork, thought it was a private seller until I got there and he had around 10 cars parked in a field at the back of his house... I could tell the thing hadnt been serviced in christ knows how long, I could tell the mileage was in no way genuine, and I could tell it was running almost bone dry on oil and petrol, but your average joe couldnt, not a chance! So do you not see my point? that people should be protected in some way from guys like that who dont bear any of the aftersales responsibility that genuine car dealerships do? you cant take them to court, you cant get a refund.... and a used car can cost 10k, thats not pocket change, you cant just shrug that kind of loss off unless your made of money.

QUOTE (Geo @ Mar 17 2008, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'd say there are lots of people on this site who have bought a car and by the time they come to sell it on it is in much better condition than it was when they bought it.

Every car ive ever bought

 

Basically my point is that if a private seller is dishonest then you are screwed as they can tell you anything about the condition of the car and you have no warranty. This applies whether they have owned the car from new or if they just bought it to sell on.

There are honest private sellers and dishonest private sellers. There are honest part time dealers and dishonest ones. Deciding not to even bother viewing a car because the seller happens to be (for example) a mechanic who buys the odd car and fixes them in his spare time is pretty shortsighted if you ask me.

You should see the number of chancers coming into my dad's garage trying to trade in heaps of shit, where do you think these cars end up when no garage will take them as a trade in? That's right as a private sale!

 

QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Mar 17 2008, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I remember almost buying a bora from a guy in cork, thought it was a private seller until I got there and he had around 10 cars parked in a field at the back of his house... I could tell the thing hadnt been serviced in christ knows how long, I could tell the mileage was in no way genuine, and I could tell it was running almost bone dry on oil and petrol, but your average joe couldnt, not a chance! So do you not see my point? that people should be protected in some way from guys like that who dont bear any of the aftersales responsibility that genuine car dealerships do?

This is my point exactly. I see what you are saying there but that could all equally apply to a genuine private seller. Just because someone has owned and driven a car for a couple of years doesn't automatically mean it was serviced regularly and the mileage is genuine!

 

i count myself lucky that any sechond hand car i have bought has been ok but thats down to the fact i know about the car i am looking at and the problems that they can have.
i can see the point being made here on both sides and i think if you are buying a secondhand car whether through a dealer or a private seller if either of them are dishonest about it you are fucked either way.
my brother bought a bmw 316 coupe last year from a dealer and it was a heap of shit even though it had a full service history .
it ended up needing over a 1000 euro worth of work including all the belts and pulleys on the engine gearbox mount and new radiator to name but a few things.
solicitors letters were sent to the dealer with threats of court and to this day not a penny has been recieved.
my point is that when someone who knows nothing about cars buys one of a dishonest dealer or private seller they are screwed.

 

QUOTE (gtijim @ Mar 17 2008, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>my point is that when someone who knows nothing about cars buys one of a dishonest dealer or private seller they are screwed.

That's true. The last few cars that I have bought have been in the UK, from private seller's. One was actually selling cars from the side of this house where he had loads of cars, but he was a genuine guy, like all of the people that I have dealt with in the UK (touch wood) It really comes down to the individual car and FSH can mean very little.

I always have a car on Carzone, but I'm not a dealer. If a decent bargain comes along, I will buy it and sell it on. I would clean up the car, polish it, service it and then advertise it
My Bora was on Carzone since I bought it, my cabby is on Carzone since I bought it. I also have another cheap car on Carzone too. If the right buyer comes along, the car will be sold

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Mar 17 2008, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is my point exactly. I see what you are saying there but that could all equally apply to a genuine private seller. Just because someone has owned and driven a car for a couple of years doesn't automatically mean it was serviced regularly and the mileage is genuine!

Oh I dont dispute that, the worlds full of crooked f*ckers out to make fast cash!
Basically what im saying, and what I meant by my first post, is if your just an average joe looking to buy a car and you decide to take the risk and go down the private route to try and save some money, would you continue to deal with a trader posing as a private seller? Or would you play it safe and hang up the phone when they say "which car?"
Theres guys trading like that who's carzone ads quite clearly show thats what theyre doing "...also have a 1.6 Focus, and a 1.0 micra", and I wouldnt hesitate to call them, theyre already letting you know right there that its not a private sale in the truest sense.

No offence intended to anyone on here buying cars and selling them on, just the enthusiast market makes up about 10% of car sales, so for the other 90% I think it's better to take my advice from the first post and just play it safe.

 

QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Mar 17 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>if your just an average joe looking to buy a car and you decide to take the risk and go down the private route to try and save some money, would you continue to deal with a trader posing as a private seller? Or would you play it safe and hang up the phone when they say "which car?"

See this is where the main point of disagreement is. Who says you are playing safe by hanging up just because the guy on the phone says 'which car?' You could be passing up a good, genuine car from a genuine seller. I think you are making an unfair generalisation by saying this.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Mar 17 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>See this is where the main point of disagreement is. Who says you are playing safe by hanging up just because the guy on the phone says 'which car?' You could be passing up a good, genuine car from a genuine seller. I think you are making an unfair generalisation by saying this.

Yeah ok, i'll give you that... and yes it is an unfair generalisation. Me being me i'd still go look at the car (Like ive done in the past), but unfair or not if I knew nothing about cars other than they look pretty and go vroom i'd steer clear whether its unfair or stereotypical. Im always amazed at the amount of non-geniuine sellers (car's and other) ive come across in my short life, so I'll always jump to the worst conclusion rather than get screwed!
But as I said, I do see your point, and even though I agree with you it wont change my cynical view on every trader in the country, in my head theyre all out to get me

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Mar 17 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>See this is where the main point of disagreement is. Who says you are playing safe by hanging up just because the guy on the phone says 'which car?' You could be passing up a good, genuine car from a genuine seller. I think you are making an unfair generalisation by saying this.

Geo has an excellent point. I've had people hang on up me when they've said "What car?" and I say: "Car B".

I ring back, they say "I'm ringing about Car A off adverts.ie" - which of course was advertised a year ago and I'm currently trying to shift Car B.

People that give out about vendors normally are the same types that try to haggle before even seeing the car. That's when I hang up.

 

QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Mar 16 2008, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah, thats why I always say "im ringing about the car you have for sale" when I ring, soon as hear "which car?" thats me done!
who gives a flying shite what the seller is like, i dont care if hes from mars, if your any good you will know if the car is a peach or a lemon, its the car your buying not the seller.

 

QUOTE (Brian.G @ Mar 17 2008, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>if your any good you will know if the car is a peach or a lemon

And if you havent a clue?

 

QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Mar 17 2008, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And if you havent a clue?

You should bring someone with you that does or not buy a car privately.

 

if anyone wants to borrow my flamesuit i left it by my 200sx thread..

 

QUOTE (t.d @ Mar 17 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You should bring someone with you that does or not buy a car privately.

I'll get my coat...

 

QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Mar 17 2008, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And if you havent a clue?
i thought we all knew what we were talking about on here, if not 'bring a friendly mechanic'

 

.

 

QUOTE (Brian.G @ Mar 17 2008, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i thought we all knew what we were talking about on here, if not 'bring a friendly mechanic'

Yeah that was cleared up above thanks.... and a few years ago I wouldnt have known what I do now, and back then i'd have (and did) happily blindly followed the "avoid dealers posing as private sellers" rule. Im not the first one to use that advice, I wont be the last either. Too many cowboys out there, and as I said earlier in this thread the enthusiast market makes up a very small percentage of cars sold in this country... the rest of the buyers should play it as safe as possible.
I wonder how actual car dealerships feel when theyve spent money on licencing, marketing, property, a proper service centre only to have some guy on the side of the road join in for free and avoid all of the rules they have to abide by? And dont say side of the roadside dealers are selling cheaper than dealerships, because these days, with sites like carzone and autotrader, even private sellers are pricing the same as them.

Once again, im not tarring everyone with the same brush, and i'm not trying to imply that anyone here selling cars is a cowboy... just giving my take on things, im sure theres someone out there who agrees with me too (even though im the only one making a tool of myself)

 

I agree with u all the way but at the end of the day but when i go to see a car i generally just treat it has any other purchase over €5. Use you're head. If the guy says he's a trader, fair enough just bargain hard assuming there's no warranty given or implied. If he gives a dubious yarn about why he's selling 4or5 cars at once, offer him a monkey or just hang up and save you're phone credit! If he's an enthusiast then have high expectations.....everything else its just the old rule, buyer beware!

 

QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Mar 17 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah that was cleared up above thanks.... and a few years ago I wouldnt have known what I do now, and back then i'd have (and did) happily blindly followed the "avoid dealers posing as private sellers" rule. Im not the first one to use that advice, I wont be the last either. Too many cowboys out there, and as I said earlier in this thread the enthusiast market makes up a very small percentage of cars sold in this country... the rest of the buyers should play it as safe as possible.
I wonder how actual car dealerships feel when theyve spent money on licencing, marketing, property, a proper service centre only to have some guy on the side of the road join in for free and avoid all of the rules they have to abide by? And dont say side of the roadside dealers are selling cheaper than dealerships, because these days, with sites like carzone and autotrader, even private sellers are pricing the same as them.

Once again, im not tarring everyone with the same brush, and i'm not trying to imply that anyone here selling cars is a cowboy... just giving my take on things, im sure theres someone out there who agrees with me too (even though im the only one making a tool of myself)

I completely agree with everything you've said in this thread and think you're giving in too easily. Everyone here knows what a private sale is meant to imply. Why would i want to buy a car from someone who cant even be honest in their ad? And if it is only 'honest joe' tryin to make a few bob i know the value is gone or if its there something is wrong. I want the car in the driveway, the deal in the house, and an owner who knows the car, anyone else, piss off. Sure there are dishonest private sellers who want to meet at some pub halfway and they can piss off too.

As for garages refusing trade-ins because they're shit, thats a new one on me. All dealers (over)price their cars to factor in a trade-in or a cash price discount. Why should they give a flying fcuk what condition its in if it means they get full whack for their car/get your car for fcuk all. My sister went to look at an audi recently and your man was offering her x amount for hers
just looking at it. To me there are two types of trade-in, the idiot who returns his fsh to the franchised dealer for the 08 model, which then sells for top whack, and the chancer who wants rid before a myriad of problems beset, which trickles down to various independent roadside dealers, and backyard 'private' sellers.

Anyone on here can buy and sell the odd car if they want and good luck to them, but i would advise anyone to run a mile.

Finally, in defense of Americanpaddy, who started the thread in good faith, Polomints comments were well out of order.