Won't be an ECU problem anyway as it won't stop the car from cranking.

When you try to start the car do the dash lights dim or stay on?

If you have a multimeter then check for 12V between the body of the starter and the main power wire with the 13mm nut on the end while someone else turns the key to the start position.

You have already checked the small wire yes? Is it definitely getting 12V when you turn the key? Definitely making good contact on the spade connector on the solenoid?

If that all checks out ok then your starter is most likely at fault.

 

Bad earth somewhere, probably at the battery terminal itself or wires onto body. Take a set of jump leads, put them on over battery terminals, fix the earth to the lifting hook on the end of the head, and the other very carefully onto the 13mm nut on the starter. This has to be done with caution and held in place by a friend, if not you will short battery and ye could both be killed instantly...

I bet it will at least turn over then.

 

QUOTE (Brian.G @ Jan 13 2010, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ye could both be killed instantly...

But Dont say this bit to your friend

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Won't be an ECU problem anyway as it won't stop the car from cranking.

When you try to start the car do the dash lights dim or stay on?

If you have a multimeter then check for 12V between the body of the starter and the main power wire with the 13mm nut on the end while someone else turns the key to the start position.

You have already checked the small wire yes? Is it definitely getting 12V when you turn the key? Definitely making good contact on the spade connector on the solenoid?

If that all checks out ok then your starter is most likely at fault.

Havent looked at the dash lights - but i dont think so, i check tonight when i get home. Ye, small wire is getting 11. something volts anyway, definitly. Good connection with the spade. Just remembered, the opposite spade to the red one, on the other side of the solenoid has nothing attached to it. should this be an earth? There was never anything connected to this part.

I will have access to a starter over the weekend so il swop the whole thing over then and check. I dont know if i want to fry my battery so i mite just wait to see if i can try another starter.

Thanks for the help Geo and Brian.

 

QUOTE (91patrol @ Jan 13 2010, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Havent looked at the dash lights - but i dont think so, i check tonight when i get home. Ye, small wire is getting 11. something volts anyway, definitly. Good connection with the spade. Just remembered, the opposite spade to the red one, on the other side of the solenoid has nothing attached to it. should this be an earth? There was never anything connected to this part.

I will have access to a starter over the weekend so il swop the whole thing over then and check. I dont know if i want to fry my battery so i mite just wait to see if i can try another starter.

Thanks for the help Geo and Brian.
Id honestly try the jump leads first, no point swapping in a starter if the connects are bad, just be careful, its tight quarters for a jump lead on the 13mm nut but its very possible.

 

The test I described with the multimeter will also tell you if the battery cables are ok. It will show up any volt drop along the circuit.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The test I described with the multimeter will also tell you if the battery cables are ok. It will show up any volt drop along the circuit.
Without being a gimp that test has failed me a few times, you could see 11volt at starter but if the lead isent in good nick it wont carry the current.

 

That's why you need to test the circuit under load by measuring while the key is in the start position.

Volt drop testing is a well established method and is foolproof when used correctly.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The test I described with the multimeter will also tell you if the battery cables are ok. It will show up any volt drop along the circuit.

Ok, il try both when i get home from work tomorro.

Geo, do i put the voltmeter on the nut at the back of the solenoid where the power cable goes into it, and touch the black sensor off the body of the starter, just the outside ye??

Brian, will i defnitly need someone to hold the jump onto the starter?? Would it just fly off if no one is holding it?

If neither work, im guessing the starter is goosed, or the solenoid?? Would it be easier to change both or just the solenoid??

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's why you need to test the circuit under load by measuring while the key is in the start position.

Volt drop testing is a well established method and is foolproof when used correctly.
I know what your saying, but if the voltage does drop when the key is turned where does that leave you?
Voltage is one thing as you know but current is another. If you were to join starter to battery with a light speaker wire you would have 12v there then also, but the car wouldent start. Actually, the wire would prob go on fire, but you get my point on how a wire can supply 12v but be unable to back up the amps for whatever reason.

 

Do 2 tests - Brian this should answer your question as well:

1. Measure voltage across the actual poles of the battery first with ignition on and then with key in start position. write down these values.

2. Now do the same across the terminal of the starter and the body of the starter.

There shouldn't be any major difference between the readings if the cables are in good nick.

This tests the performance of the cables under load, i.e. tests current carrying ability.

 

QUOTE (91patrol @ Jan 13 2010, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>OK lads, need some help. My golf wont start. It wont even turn over. Il describe the symptoms, and what ive checked so far.

When i turn the key to just before crank, the fuel pump primes, as if its ready to start as normal. Then when i turn to start, all i hear is the fuel pump powering up or pumping/buzzing as if the car was running. Nothing else happens, nothing. The starter does nothing, does not turn the engine nothing. It as if the starter has been disconected, but i dont know if this is the problem.

So far ive checked:
Battery is ok - Checked with voltmeter, and jumped it with another car.
Starter seems to be getting power - checked the control wire from the ignition with voltmeter and its getting voltage when i try to crank it.

Ecu- this is kind of how the problem started. A friends golf was acting the mick, so i put my ECU into his to make sure it wasnt his ECU, and put his ECU into mine. My Car started fine with his ECU, not a bother on it, a few times. Then it just stopped trying to start. So i figured maybe his ECU was goosed, so i put mine back in. Which is in the car now. Still zip. Nothing. Now i dont know if it was something to do with the ECU that made it act up, or if it just happened to be a coincidence.

Also, this happened around the start of the 'Big Freeze'. So could it have damaged the starter soleniod?

Ive been reading on forums about an ECU relay, Starter Relay, and Ignition Relay. I cant find any of these, there not in my hanes manual. And when i get a diagram of the fuse board, none of these are listed on these. So ive at a dead end!

Any help would be greatley appreciated as usual. Thanks lads
get a multimeter on the starter see if theres any change in volts when the key is turned. i had a problem before similar to this, enged up i had to take out the ignition barrel and clean it down. ull need the hands of a surgeon and the paitence of a saint tho. mine used to also start and run perfect but the lights nor heater nor indicators or horn wouldnt work. this was all solved thru the ignition barrell.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do 2 tests - Brian this should answer your question as well:

1. Measure voltage across the actual poles of the battery first with ignition on and then with key in start position. write down these values.

2. Now do the same across the terminal of the starter and the body of the starter.

There shouldn't be any major difference between the readings if the cables are in good nick.

This tests the performance of the cables under load, i.e. tests current carrying ability.
Indeed, but if there is, it could either be a fucked starter or the tiny supply down getting drained the second you load the circuit.

The jump lead way rules a lot of things out in a second. It also may allow the rest of the stuff to work in the car(if its not) given that the starter then has its own remote supply. The tiny bit of conductivity may be able to run the in car stuff alone.

 

Can you borrow the ignition module from your friend?

 

QUOTE (Brian.G @ Jan 13 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Indeed, but if there is, it could either be a fucked started or the tiny supply down getting drain the second you load the circuit.

That is why you do the first test on the poles of the battery. To give you a reference. To take an example of a Galaxy I was working on today that was turning over but too slowly to start. Could have been starter or main/earth cable. Turn on ignition 13V across the poles. Turn key drops to 7v. Try same test at starter gives same result. Therefore cables ok starter shot.

If it was a cable problem the voltage across the poles would stay up close to 13V when the key was turned. Think about it

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>2. Now do the same across the terminal of the starter and the body of the starter.

is the terminal of the starter the 13mm nut that the main cable bolts into?

QUOTE (rubbinanddubbin @ Jan 13 2010, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>get a multimeter on the starter see if theres any change in volts when the key is turned. i had a problem before similar to this, enged up i had to take out the ignition barrel and clean it down. ull need the hands of a surgeon and the paitence of a saint tho. mine used to also start and run perfect but the lights nor heater nor indicators or horn wouldnt work. this was all solved thru the ignition barrell.

Hope its not the ignition barrell!!!

 

QUOTE (Oisin @ Jan 13 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Can you borrow the ignition module from your friend?

Won't prevent car from turning over.

 

QUOTE (91patrol @ Jan 13 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>is the terminal of the starter the 13mm nut that the main cable bolts into?

Yeah.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah.

Thanks for the help lads, really appreciate it. Il try both methods tomorrow when i get home, and let you know how i get on.

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That is why you do the first test on the poles of the battery. To give you a reference. To take an example of a Galaxy I was working on today that was turning over but too slowly to start. Could have been starter or main/earth cable. Turn on ignition 13V across the poles. Turn key drops to 7v. Try same test at starter gives same result. Therefore cables ok starter shot.

If it was a cable problem the voltage across the poles would stay up close to 13V when the key was turned. Think about it

I understand fully what you are saying, Im just thinking about the mk2 last week, same problem, I get ya now about ref'in of the battery first, and then testing when cranking too. Your lucky to have someone to hold meter, crank, and hold probes at the same time

 

Ah sure I don't actually do any of this I just stand around and supervise while drinking tea. Cold job these days

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ah sure I don't actually do any of this I just stand around and supervise while drinking tea. Cold job these days

supervising is a improtant job 2

hope your not making your own tea!!!!

 

You know how it is Brian you need to watch lads like a hawk or they will take shortcuts

As for the tea well there are some things that if you want them done right you really have to do them yourself

 

QUOTE (Geo @ Jan 13 2010, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ah sure I don't actually do any of this I just stand around and supervise while drinking tea. Cold job these days

Looks like Im the Gimp so

 

Jayzus, when one goes they all go. Hope you figure it out, same thing happened to me in the 20V the night I started driving it and in the van. In the 20V the power cable popped out a bit when my foot slipped off the clutch and in the van it was a bad earth on the box. Both problems sorted by the Geo fella

Might be a good idea to get some contact cleaner and go over all your connectors, earth's etc.