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Hybrid K04 Project

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36K views 143 replies 37 participants last post by  Ev'0  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Evening all,

A new project has arisen for me with my LCR. As you all know i just completed my water/methanol injection a little while back and was very happy with the results. I can confirm this system has been running nicely over the past 2 months with no problems (touch wood) .I got good gains from this but more over i could run a lot of extra timing with little or no knock. I am glad i did this as i seen it as more of a build up to this project and will compliment it nicely form the aspect of IAT's, timing and EGT's.

BEHOLD The K04 hybrid in all it glory.

Basically this project is to get more power from the BAM 1.8t without incurring the cost and un-drivability (IMO)of big turbo kits. Hybrid have been around for a while at this stage mostly on the UK market, i always felt they were just not there from the point of comfortably getting over and beyond the 300BHP mark, this is mostly because in my experience people just slap these on and expect a big figure without any of the supporting mods for it. One of the biggest restriction thus far has been the OEM K04 cast manifold, while this mani is good it just cannot flow enough even if you have a hybrid, not anymore, 034/INA have being developing a new high flow manifold for use on the TT/S3/LCR RHD 1.8t BAM Engine. This manifold flows 35% better than the OEM and if they say its as good as that then I'm happy, we have yet to see whether it will crack when we get into the 900c EGT's, only time will tell, but i reckon its worth a shot and luckily i have been able to get my hands one:)

Over the past month i have been stocking piling hardware for this project, luckily the LCR is already reality well modified so i did not have to purchase a whole lot.

Firstly the Hybrid i went for in the end was a CR turbo hybrid with and K06 compressor wheel and some other bells, whistles and fairy dust to make it a good choice, CR have a great name in the industry. Initially i was going to go for a Turbo dynamic stage 4 K04 hybrid but after some investigation it turns out the CR turbo has the same spec and is priced better, missus all the marketing BS. These turbo's are capable of between 340-360bhp on paper given the correct setup, what that means to me is get it on an optimistic dyno, hopefully i will be proved wrong, but a healthy 330BHP should be achieved.

Obviously with this new power torque will be an issues, the Rods will have to be done, they are already at the limit IMO and its just a matter of time before she puts a leg out of bed.

My WMi setup will have to change from a single port injection to a dual port injection, one located on the cold side of the IC and the other just before the TB, i am running 50/50 mixes these days so i can only guess what octane i running, but i guessing its high.

Another aspect i have always neglected in the past was a Decent CAI, last logging with the did air going into the turbo was about 44c, hopefully with a CAI we can cool this( this is another debate altogether!) as at the end of the day you can fit more cold air into a space than hot air, this will never change and with G/S readings of 280g/s (x 1.25 = 350bhp on paper, hmm)from these hybrids as opposed to my 215g/s i reckon it can't do any harm.

Injectors, I decided to run 440cc injectors at 3bar instead of just uprating the FPR to 4bar, an inline fuel pump would be needed IMO as I wouldnt trust mine to run 4bar + 1.6bar boost.

Now the engine setup.

CR K04 Hyrbid(k06 compressor wheel) with 9psi actuator
440cc injectors( my IDC are already at 116% at 6400rpm!!)
034 highflow manifold.
IE rods/bearing.
An assortment of funny looking gaskets.
MBC to iron out those spikes.
3" Downpipe.
100 race Cat
FMIC
WMI 50/50 Mix these days.
DV
Uprated boost/turbo/TIP blah blah blah.
Big Ass Jetex cone filter.

Lastly i will need Joe to remap her again, so Joe if you read this start swanning up on those hybrid remap files.

So there we go, that's what I'm at, sorry to bore the shite out of you with the above but I haven't been to active on here recently and felt like getting that off my chest.Its gonna be interesting to see what power I can get with this setup and I am excited to say the least.

Some pics of the new stuff.

CR k04 hybrid.

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440cc Green giant injectors
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High flow 034 mani

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Rods/Gaskets/bearing etc…

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Comments, opinions welcome as always.
 
M
#4 ·
Always admire the thought and detail you put in Robbie.
Will be watching this with interest.
 
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T
#5 ·
excellent stuff.
 
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D
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Sweet Robbie. Rods and all you legend.

On the big turbo kits though I wouldn't say there un-drivable, in fact I find it better than my K03 or K04 as I can stay completely out of boost and gradually bring it in rather than a massive spike like the KKK's give.

Also with the manifolds not holding enough flow up top I have to disagree as well. My ATP High flow cracked and as a result I have the stock BEX manifold back on and I love how it spools so much quicker than with the ATP one. Up top it holds 22psi all the way to red line too. The BEX Manifold is a bit bigger than the stock K03 ones so I'd imagine the K04 on yours is bigger yet again.

In saying that though the 034 manifold and CR turbo will probably compliment each other pretty well, the bigger manifold reducing the spike in turbo.

cant wait to see this thing built, its going to be sweet.

You should pick up some stainless lines whilst your swapping out the turbo, the stock turbo line from VW/Audi is the gutts of €100 I think?
http://www.psiconcepts.com/store/index.php...etail&p=177
 
#8 ·
QUOTE (davkav @ Sep 30 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sweet Robbie. Rods and all you legend.

On the big turbo kits though I wouldn't say there un-drivable, in fact I find it better than my K03 or K04 as I can stay completely out of boost and gradually bring it in rather than a massive spike like the KKK's give.

I guess that depends on driving style, i don't rev untill 7500rpm and i want my turbo spooled before 3.5k, i would consider this to laggy for my driving stlye.My torque should be there low end, spikes can be mapped out and this also depends on what map you go for, alternatively i will just use the throttle with more respect, rather than WOT from the get go
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Also with the manifolds not holding enough flow up top I have to disagree as well. My ATP High flow cracked and as a result I have the stock BEX manifold back on and I love how it spools so much quicker than with the ATP one. Up top it holds 22psi all the way to red line too. The BEX Manifold is a bit bigger than the stock K03 ones so I'd imagine the K04 on yours is bigger yet again.

I am very suprised at this statement and its in contradiction to everything i have read, and maybe the BEX is different to the BAM, but my OEM manifold cannot flow high end, its totally choked, it just gets hot after a certain point, this is why no hybrid has ever make over 310bhp on an BAM 1.8T. Also as the guys running the GT2871r over on SCN are reporting a loss of 20/30bhp on stock manifold again reporting its gets choked.
Did you get the 2 mani setups RR'd? How are you EGT's with the Stock mani and GT28? Why did you get a manifold if the OEM flows better?


In saying that though the 034 manifold and CR turbo will probably compliment each other pretty well, the bigger manifold reducing the spike in turbo.

cant wait to see this thing built, its going to be sweet.

You should pick up some stainless lines whilst your swapping out the turbo, the stock turbo line from VW/Audi is the gutts of €100 I think?
http://www.psiconcepts.com/store/index.php...etail&p=177
Cheer for that, just when i thought all my spending was over with
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D
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
With my stock manifold my turbo spools at about 3.5k. thats true too I suppose, the spikes can be mapped out.

Unfortunately with the problems I had with the intercooler pipes I never got to the dyno before the ATP manifold cracked. I wouldnt say the stock manifold flows more than the ATP one and I reckon I will have to upgrade to a bigger ported one once I get rods in and start pushing it up to the high 20's psi but for now it seems to be doing a good job.

I haven't logged EGT's but I plan on getting out this weekend and doing loads of logging. #1 because I finally got my Intercooler pipes sorted out and #2 because my meth kit came on Tuesday
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I'm gonna try and get down to the dyno soon enough and see what its putting out. Before the rods go in I will be upgrading the manifold again and Ill see if I can get another dyno in before doing any more tuning and see what differences are had with the higher flow.

Yeah I picked up a set of these lines last week, fitted and all. I must say they are great quality and they are cut to the exact length needed. My rubber coolant hoses going to/from the turbo didnt look like they where holding up too well so I had to change them for peace of mind.
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
QUOTE (davkav @ Sep 30 2010, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With my stock manifold my turbo spools at about 3.5k. thats true too I suppose, the spikes can be mapped out.

Unfortunately with the problems I had with the intercooler pipes I never got to the dyno before the ATP manifold cracked. I wouldnt say the stock manifold flows more than the ATP one and I reckon I will have to upgrade to a bigger ported one once I get rods in and start pushing it up to the high 20's psi but for now it seems to be doing a good job.

I haven't logged EGT's but I plan on getting out this weekend and doing loads of logging. #1 because I finally got my Intercooler pipes sorted out and #2 because my meth kit came on Tuesday
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I'm gonna try and get down to the dyno soon enough and see what its putting out. Before the rods go in I will be upgrading the manifold again and Ill see if I can get another dyno in before doing any more tuning and see what differences are had with the higher flow.

Yeah I picked up a set of these lines last week, fitted and all. I must say they are great quality and they are cut to the exact length needed. My rubber coolant hoses going to/from the turbo didnt look like they where holding up too well so I had to change them for peace of mind.

Glad you got the piping sorted, Jez that fella really did a shite job from the sounds of it.What dyno are you using?

I was logging my EGT's as these are a worry for me and they did not go over 830c which isn't bad, you should really keep and eye on yours.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
Bit of an update, i was logging my IDC's last night and my IPW's at 6440rpm were 21.8ms, thats a duty cycle of 116%, my injectors were maxed out to the hilt, so this forced me to install the new 440cc injectors early.The install was fine but anyone using the Bosch Green giant injectors make sure you have a spacer kit as the injectors are longer so the fuel rail needs to be raised.

I will drive it for a bit 30/40 miles and see how the ECu handles the fuel trims then out with the Lemmiwinks for some tweaking.

Still i am glad i spotted this.
 
D
#17 ·
QUOTE (RobbieRolex @ Sep 30 2010, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Glad you got the piping sorted, Jez that fella really did a shite job from the sounds of it.What dyno are you using?

I was logging my EGT's as these are a worry for me and they did not go over 830c which isn't bad, you should really keep and eye on yours.

830 Robbie! thats extremely good. What are you rev'ing too?

I did a quick run from stop to the end of 4th last night ~15C outside. Max IAT's where 37 and EGT 965 which is still safe but I'm hoping for it to come down a good bit now with this Water/Meth.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
QUOTE (davkav @ Oct 1 2010, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>830 Robbie! thats extremely good. What are you rev'ing too?

I did a quick run from stop to the end of 4th last night ~15C outside. Max IAT's where 37 and EGT 965 which is still safe but I'm hoping for it to come down a good bit now with this Water/Meth.

Into the red! About 6,800rpm.Outside temp was 14c, Once the WMI got the temps under control the IAT's were between 9 and 18c on the power run's.Also i only started measuring EGT's until anou the 6 power run.

When are you installing you kit? and what did you go for?

P.S this was a 50/50mix, and leaning maybe a tad bit more Meth than water, ;
 
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#19 ·
QUOTE (RobbieRolex @ Oct 1 2010, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Into the red! About 6,800rpm.Outside temp was 14c, Once the WMI got the temps under control the IAT's were between 9 and 18c on the power run's.Also i only started measuring EGT's until anou the 6 power run.

When are you installing you kit? and what did you go for?

P.S this was a 50/50mix, and leaning maybe a tad bit more Meth than water, ;

Sure thats colder than ambient for your IAT's... id say its pokey as hell with it. Did you notice much of a difference in spool up and 'get up and go' once you fitted the methanol?

I got the Snow Performance Stage 2 kit. There was a group buy a while back on Audizine that I jumped on. Weather permitting I'm going to fit it this weekend. Although my timing is 0 across the board at the moment I'm still not going to crank it up with the meth installed until after I get the rods fitted.

I cannot wait till that day comes. It will be a monster, 30psi and bucket loads of timing
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R
#20 ·
robbbie get ur self a LSD, ity would have been a great help to me in the TDI (521nm and all that) drove kevs and it made a massive change in the way the car went, look at it this way 3 set of front tires and you'd have a LSD. just my 2 cents

aside from all that, looking fwd to seeing this coming along! always a good read.
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
QUOTE (Razor @ Oct 4 2010, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>robbbie get ur self a LSD, ity would have been a great help to me in the TDI (521nm and all that) drove kevs and it made a massive change in the way the car went, look at it this way 3 set of front tires and you'd have a LSD. just my 2 cents

aside from all that, looking fwd to seeing this coming along! always a good read.

And the rest...

LSD from the states 650
Box out and in, what 150-200
Spealist to fit LSD, 300-400
New clutch (might as well) 150-250
 
#24 ·
QUOTE (Razor @ Oct 4 2010, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>robbbie get ur self a LSD, ity would have been a great help to me in the TDI (521nm and all that) drove kevs and it made a massive change in the way the car went, look at it this way 3 set of front tires and you'd have a LSD. just my 2 cents

aside from all that, looking fwd to seeing this coming along! always a good read.

I totally agree an LSD is much needed, getting the power down as is can be a challenge in the wet/damp, TBO though, its not totally nessescary as i can get away with not having it for a while, also i don't have bottomless pockets
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, i will be running 8.5j tyres all round instead of the 7.5j so this will help a small bit along with a new set of tyres and some better throttle control.

The car is gonna be manic though and i have to take it easy on the twisty roads.

The LSD is on the list alright, but maybe thats my next project, LSD, clutch(maybe and air suspension!!!) and some mental WOT box stuff.
 
#25 ·
QUOTE (RobbieRolex @ Oct 4 2010, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I totally agree an LSD is much needed, getting the power down as is can be a challenge in the wet/damp, TBO though, its not totally nessescary as i can get away with not having it for a while, also i don't have bottomless pockets
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, i will be running 8.5j tyres all round instead of the 7.5j so this will help a small bit along with a new set of tyres and some better throttle control.

The car is gonna be manic though and i have to take it easy on the twisty roads.

The LSD is on the list alright, but maybe thats my next project, LSD, clutch(maybe and air suspension!!!) and some mental WOT box stuff.

Are you going to put wider tyres on it Robbie?

Good luck with the build btw should be nice when its done.

Keith
 
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#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
QUOTE (Alloy-Wheels.ie @ Oct 4 2010, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Are you going to put wider tyres on it Robbie?

Good luck with the build btw should be nice when its done.

Keith

I have 2 sets of alloys for this car, the OEM LCR 7.5j and BBS CH 8.5j, the tyres on the OEM alloys are nearly gone they only have about 3mm left so i will swap them over.
 
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